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Q: Lois, tell me how you got started with the community colleges and what you have seen over the years since you’ve been involved. Are there changes that are significant—things that shaped us to become what we are today; highlights or memorable experiences—any of these sorts of things?
Callahan: I first became acquainted with the community colleges when I was invited to teach summer school in a evening class and later was invited to come as a full-time faculty member.
Q: And where was that?
Callahan: College of San Mateo. The reason I was invited was that I represented a high school district in a major planning effort CSM was having. And the then CSM President, Dr. Julio Bortolazzo, said to me “we need you on staff”.
Q: Dr. Bortolazzo was famous for identifying people that he thought would be good in community colleges and then just “making it so.” Is that how you came to be at CSM?
Callahan: That’s how I came to be at the College. I came as a business instructor and one of the reasons that the business division was interested in me was that I had been experimenting with the use of television in the classroom. At that time KCSM (the College’s TV station) was very much interested in producing courses.
Q: In what year was this?
Callahan: 1968. I taught a variety of courses; probably the course I enjoyed the most was Business English.
Q: And why was that?
Callahan: In high school I had taught a combination of business and English and I liked the relationship between the two. I felt it was really important for business students to be able to write well.
Q: I think most people would agree that writing is an important skill for people to learn regardless of their discipline. So how long did you stay at CSM as a business instructor?
Callahan: In 1974 I went to San Jose City College as the Dean of Instruction for Vocational Education.
Q: And were you looking, or did San Jose come calling, or was this just a flyer you thought you might try?
Callahan: They came calling. A friend of mine who worked at San Jose City College said the College needed a Dean and my friend thought I would be perfect, so I applied in order to get the experience. I was there just under two years.
Q: And does anything stand out for you in terms of your first administrative assignment?
Callahan: Well, I had a great opportunity to revitalize facilities. At San Jose City many of the vocational programs were housed in high school facilities on that campus. One of the most rewarding experiences was being able to levy a tax to build a child care center.
Q: An experience you repeated as you also secured a donation for a child care center at CSM when you went there. In 1976 you came back to CSM?
Callahan: Yes, as the Dean of Instruction for the entire program.
Q: And then you became President of the College in 1978. So you were Dean at San Jose City College for two years, Dean at CSM for two years, and then became President of CSM.
Callahan: And it was interesting that when I was invited to come back to CSM as the Dean, the San Jose board did not want to release me mid-year, so that spring I put together two schedules and two budgets. I worked three days a week at San Jose in the first half of the semester and two at CSM, and then reversed it and worked three days at CSM and two at San Jose, so I did two of all the major projects that spring.
Q: So San Jose wanted you to stay until the academic year was completed.
Callahan: Or longer.
Q: Or longer—well, it’s nice to be wanted, but I’m sure you were glad to finally settle down to just one college. Tell me, in those first four years as a senior level administrator before you became President, what did you learn about administration? Do you remember any lessons you learned, anything that you particularly liked or disliked about administration?
Callahan: Well I learned how important it was to select the right staff for the college, whether it was classified or faculty or administrative staff—what an important decision that is for the long-term welfare of students and the institution. Dr Ted Murguia was President then at San Jose City College and I had a great opportunity to observe a president who was very people-oriented, very open to suggestions. I think I learned from him to be collaborative—we had a great team.
Q: And when you became President, did you then keep those lessons in mind and carry them over to CSM?
Callahan: I think that just became part of what I did as President.
Q: You retired as Chancellor of the San Mateo County Community College District in 1997. When you think back over your 30 years in administration, if you include all of your interim assignment since your retirement, how has the administrative role changed?
Callahan: I think in those early years administration was probably inclined to be more autocratic, less consultative than in more recent years. I don’t think that means that administrators weren’t interested in people, but I think the expectation at that time was that administrators would be more independent in their decisions. And also I think then it was more likely that administrators were expected to have ideas and create innovation. In later years I think we learned that everyone in the institution should have a part in the decision-making and that good ideas for innovation could come from any quarter of the institution.
Q: And did you see that as a change for the better, or for the worse, or just a different way of doing things?
Callahan: I think it was a growth opportunity for both the staff and administration to work more closely together in decision-making. Having come from the faculty and moved up internally to administration, I think I had a fairly good sense of faculty members who would be creative, innovative, really committed to doing the best possible job for the institution, and because of that relationship I also think I could rely on faculty input. But I don’t think it was just a personal observation—I think community colleges in general had moved in that direction, and of course AB1725 was a watershed moment with regard to collaboration. My own experience was that a more informal approach to collaboration, rather than what could appear sometimes to be a forced approach, worked better.
Q: Do you think that it’s possible in the current climate to be informal, or does shared governance these days require a more formal approach?
Callahan: I think it’s possible to be both. I think there can be informal conversations, especially if there’s trust to explore ideas, but then before the ultimate decision is made—if it affects a group—then it needs to be formalized. I think the communication aspect is more necessary now than it was earlier. Perhaps institutions earlier were smaller, or the groups in them were tighter. Another change that occurred during my tenure as an administrator was the advent of collective bargaining. So many areas that used to get resolved on an informal basis became formalized under collective bargaining.
Q: Those were two major changes—collective bargaining and shared governance. With respect to shared governance, do I recall correctly that you had something to do with AB1725?
Callahan: I served on the task force that developed the bones and the rationale for AB1725 and also was President of what is now called CCLC (Community College League of California), and so was an advocate for AB1725. But in those discussions I think the understanding among the participants was that the role of administration was already defined and understood. The role of other constituent groups became defined in the legislature and as people have changed, times have changed. I think that the lack of clarity of definition of the role of administration has come under duress and also more subject to misinterpretation.
Q: And what do you make of that? Does it therefore make it harder these days to be in an administrative role than it used to be prior to AB1725?
Callahan: It’s a different challenge. I think earlier our challenge was to develop new programs, develop new support systems, develop the institution as it matured. Whereas the challenge now, and it depends on the college, but at some colleges where I have been as an interim administrator, is the need to clarify expectations on shared governance. The need to build a system of trust so that each constituent plays an appropriate role has been the challenge.
Q: Trust is an interesting concept. If it’s there, you almost don’t notice that it’s there because, at least in my experience, the community college moves forward pretty well. If it’s not there, how does an administrator go about building it?
Callahan: I think you build trust by saying what you’re going to do and doing what you say you’re going to do. And that’s it clearly understood that you’re going to be fair and that you’re going to listen. I think it’s a matter of relationship, and it doesn’t happen over night. So with the short tenure of administrators I think that adds to an uncertainty about whether or not one can trust the administrator because there’s not an experience with that person.
Q: So trust not happening overnight then suggests that for people in administrative roles, were they to remain for a period of time at the college, which faculty generally does, that length of time helps to build trust.
Callahan: If the interaction is positive. And likewise, you could find a situation where over a number of years trust is distorted or diminished because of actions on either part—administrators or faculty.
Q: Well I guess that’s true enough. I think another way of saying it is that being an authentic person in interacting with others in community colleges is important.
Callahan: And I also think not feeling that you as an administrator always know best may build trust because we’re all there for the betterment of the college. No one person can have all the answers. We haven’t talked about the role of the Board but I do think that the Board sets the tone and that if the Board has clearly demonstrated its commitment to having an open, trustworthy, consistent approach to the college that that filters down.
Q: So like so many things it starts at the top.
Callahan: Yes. But I think there’s equal responsibility at every level.
Q: Looking back, if you were to offer two or three words of wisdom to people thinking about administration or just starting an administrative role, beyond what you have said about trust, what would you say?
Callahan: Certainly get the facts. Understand the history, the current situation, the different options—I think it’s important to do a thorough analysis in most situations before you make a substantive decision. Right now I would also say—answer your phone.
Q: You mean as opposed to letting voicemail pick it up?
Callahan: I’ve recently been in several different college districts, and as someone who works on searches and placing interims, I find that the use of phone mail is in some instances being abused. Not answering your phone becomes very frustrating to the public and it becomes frustrating to faculty members. I think there is a relationship that is built on the basis of knowing I can call people and they’re likely to answer the phone, and if they don’t they’re unable to. It’s not based on any theory, but I have observed and heard in many instances the concern “I can’t reach an administrator”, and I think it leaves the wrong impression even though I know administrators are in meetings a lot. I think the point is not really about answering the phone—the point is to be accessible, that you’re there. People should know when they need you they can reach you, that you’re going to be responsive. It’s all tired up with listening, responding, being helpful.
Q: Switching gears a bit, let me ask you about the state of community colleges now. Are we more vulnerable than we have been in the past with the new governor and his interest in “blowing up the boxes”, and with the California Performance Review which contains some very definite statements, among other things, about how community colleges should be accounted for administratively? How would you describe the current climate for California community colleges, and what do you think about it?
Callahan: Well, one nice thing about being retired, or even serving as an interim, is that Sacramento is not very high on my priority list any more, although I’ve spent a lot of time there working on behalf of California community colleges. One thing I’ve learned is that there will be many different ideas, recommendations, some of which are good and some of which are not, and the important role that administrators play is being able to assess the impact of those recommendations and then articulating to their legislators and others in Sacramento that either a particular idea is a good idea or it’s not a good idea. I think the League and various administrative groups provide a watchdog role for the community colleges that’s important. Do I think colleges are vulnerable? I think they’re always vulnerable because they are state institutions. On the other hand, I believe that the role of the community colleges in terms of the economy and the service they provide to individuals is well understood. It has often been said and documented that the community colleges are an important aspect of the well-being of California. So from that standpoint I don’t see community colleges being eliminated or diminished. I think over many years there has been discussion more about the use of community colleges, particularly in some remote areas, to offer four-year degrees, and I think that may be a change that could come about. Rather than being vulnerable, I think this may be an opportunity for community colleges to be treated as equivalent to four-year institutions in terms of financing, while having a different role and mission.
Q: We in the California community colleges are sometimes criticized because, since there are so many community colleges in the state, we tend to stay inside our state and trade our ideas back and forth among one another. Should we in California be doing more nationally or internationally? Is there anything that you’re aware of on the national or international level that California community colleges should be paying attention to?
Callahan: I think it’s important for us to recognize that other states are doing good things in community colleges and that we could learn from them. It seems to me we have to have a way of identifying which colleges are successful in certain areas and be more strategic in how we look at what’s happening elsewhere, and see what we can learn from that.
Q: Could you give me an example?
Callahan: Well, I think certain colleges in the state of Washington are great leaders in developing outcomes assessment. I think some of those colleges early on were outstanding in enrollment management and in both areas we could learn from them. I think that there are instances in which community colleges in states that have had declining economies, such as Pennsylvania and Ohio and Illinois, have provided services to their communities and to their states that we can learn from. I think there are studies about how an institution can be responsive to adult learners that we could learn from, since the average age of our student bodies has increased.
Q: What do you think students can expect from California community colleges in the future?
Callahan: Well, I think they should expect excellence in teaching, and that they should expect excellence in services, meaning that students should be able to obtain services and instruction more or less on demand; that scheduling would be convenient for them; that they should be able to expect the curriculum would always be evolving and up-to-date. What they should expect and what they can expect—I think it depends on the institution, whether an institution is constantly assessing the quality of its services to its students. It’s easy for an institution to get locked into certain ways of doing things and not recognize that the student body has changed and needs services in a different way.
Q: And how does money play a role in realizing these expectations, either the presence or lack thereof, since state funding has been so unpredictable.
Callahan: I think it’s a matter of setting priorities. For many years we had the opportunity of doing what I call “add ons”. We added on programs, we added on services and in a very lean time it’s not possible to always add on. Therefore it means doing a better job of setting priorities and revising the way we deliver services. We talked a bit about community colleges and how they have changed. I think in the years that I’ve been associated with community colleges I have seen a great expansion in the kinds of services we provide to students, specialized ones, like EOPS, like high tech centers, special services to the disabled, child care. I’ve also seen a great expansion in options in terms of how you might take a course—computer assisted, open entry/open exit, online—and many of those changes have been add-ons rather than planning out what is best or being willing to integrate or consolidate programs and services.
Q: So are you suggesting that perhaps we have fallen into a pattern of adding programs and services and methods of teaching and this and that and the other thing, without doing a careful look at our core mission?
Callahan: I think so. I look at the expansion of English as a second language and basic skills courses. We have mechanisms for assessing where students are. What’s not clear to me is whether we focus our offerings based on where students are, or do we continue to offer everything we’ve always offered and just keep expanding the options—which fragments much of what we’re doing and it costs more.
Q: Sounds to me like you’re saying community colleges could benefit from an internal look and some careful pruning around however we define our core mission for our communities.
Callahan: We used pruning as a positive word after the advent of Proposition 13, with the idea that you prune and then you grow and then you’re stronger. I think the term “pruning” has come to mean cutting back with no change or growth. But I do think that we could look internally at how we schedule, how we support students and instruction, and become more effective because we’re using our resources in a consolidated way rather than a distributed way. Although I recognize that it’s not easy—change is hard to come by and it’s much easier to add on than it is to consolidate. But we need to know what we do best, what works best for students and then put our focus there. Two things I think have changed in the community colleges since Proposition 13: one is the need to do fundraising at all levels and the other is we haven’t fully realized the impact of Proposition 13. I think the widespread effort to pass facilities bonds is an indication that we’re changing the way we finance what we do—we have let our facilities deteriorate over many years and now the public is able to see that visibly. So whether it’s fundraising through foundations or other activities, or conducting bond elections, I think a major change is that the institution has to be more energetic and more creative in the way it provides funding to do what it needs to do, because we can’t depend just on taxes.
Q: As you look back on your community college career, Lois, what things stand out for you personally?
Callahan: I continue to be awestruck by the impact community colleges have on individual students. I never tire of hearing the personal stories of how the community college made a difference in someone’s life . I think that has been a constant that the colleges make a difference, and that’s because the people at the colleges care. I would say the commitment of faculty and classified staff and administrators and board members to the colleges and their mission, people who go the second mile or the third mile to make a difference for students, stands out in my mind. And the third thing that gives me great pleasure, particularly as I’ve moved among different colleges, is to see community support—that communities do recognize our value and they want their community colleges to be healthy and well financed.
Q: Has it then been a satisfying career being a community college administrator?
Callahan: I can’t imagine doing anything else.
Q: Well, now you are going to have to be doing something else because you’re fully retired. How are you spending time these days?
Callahan: Well, it hasn’t been but two months yet since my last job, but I’m spending time now with the grandchildren, traveling and working for my church.
Q: One last thing, Lois—is there anything that you want to comment on further about what we’ve already talked about? Or is there anything you want to say about something we haven’t talked about?
Callahan: As the years pass by I realize what a significant change Proposition 13 made. I became President at CSM the day after it passed, and I had been involved in articulating why it was not going to be good for public education, but I don’t think I ever envisioned how devastating it would be to our ability to provide excellence. And the other thing I realize that is sort of amazing is looking back at how primitive our technology was in the late 60s and where it is today.
Q: And that takes us full circle back to your interest in television in the classroom, which is how you came to the community colleges in the first place. Thank you for your time today, Lois. We’ll miss you being with us in the future.
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